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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Media Bias?
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Date:
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8/31/2009 2:26:45 AM
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-media bias, yes or no, is often a subject on this forum. Why not again!
-So-o-o-o-o, here's a question for y'all, "Where is Cindy Sheehan?" Cindy is teh mother of a warrior son who died in Iraq. She often demonstrated against the Bush war effort in Iraq, and as a result was on main stream news almost nightly when she camped out at Crawford while Bush was there on vacation. She was constantly a special interest of leading democrats. So-o-o-o-o, I ask gain, "Where is Cindy Sheehan?"
-Well, Cindy is presently camped out in Martha's Vineyard protesting Obama's war effort in Afghanistan. Anybody see her on the news lately?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Media Bias?
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Date:
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8/31/2009 6:45:48 AM
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Haven't seen or heard from her. But, wasn't the real reason that for the media attention was because she was "demanding" to meet the President and he refused? I think she is just old news, and therefore, no longer newsworthy. I don't think it has to do with Obama. The woman is a grief stricken nut case.
On the other hand, I saw a poll on MSNBC that said that a growing segment thinks that the war in Afghanistan is not worth the effort.
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Whatever happened to reporting that didn't have a political spin?
Just recently, watching a segment on Walter Cronkite, said that the only two times he showed any emotion was when he reported JFK dead (he took off his glasses) and when we walked on the moon.
News didn't used to be "entertainment".
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Missed a big one
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Date:
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8/31/2009 12:17:10 PM
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He also said after the Tet offensive that it proved we can't win in Vietnam. He was one of the largest contributors to the lie that Tet was anything but an overwhelming military victory for the U.S. Unfortunately we lost the propaganda war because our media and elites sided with the Viet Cong and China against their own country.
Conkrite was a liberal through and through but compared to journalists today only seems to have kept his views completely to himself. I can remember my Dad couldn't stand him for the same reason he hated the show MASH. He fought in Korea and understood that militarily we could not lose either war (Korea or Vietnam) unless they were fought by politicians in Washington and media/entertainment elite propagandized for the enemy. He was proven right on both accounts.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Media Bias-continued
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Date:
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8/31/2009 12:44:01 PM
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-Cronkite was a liberal on most issues, but you have to give the guy credit that he reported the news fairly accurately and left the spin to others.
-I think we've all been in positions where we have personal preferences but our professional reqirements demand that we act fairly, ...and hopefully we did/do.
-I use to beleive that teh mainstream news media was that way. No matter their personal beliefs, they would ferrit out the who, what, when, where, and why of a story and present it fairly. But that certanily seems to be the exception rather than the norm now.
-I bring up the Cindy Sheehan case because I think it is a present example that clear shows teh media bias. Sheehan suffered a great loss,and wants to make sense of it. The left used her. If the left or teh main stream media believed that war in the mideast and the loss of American lives in the mideast were wrong, they would be with Cindy Sheehan now at Martha's Vineyard. What's clear to me is that the left and teh main stream media believe that only republican wars in teh mideaast are wrong.
- si-i-i-i-i-igh, perhaps I'm just becoming too cynical in my old age.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Media Bias-continued
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Date:
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8/31/2009 12:56:56 PM
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I really think Cronkite was as unbiased as he could be given his liberal views. He let it slip through on an infrequent basis.
I really believe though that our view of his being fair and balanced comes through the lens of current day journalistic standards. My Dad could not watch him and at the time I did not understand why. He obviously had a much higher standard than we do today.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Missed a big one
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Date:
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8/31/2009 3:27:11 PM
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That is true and Johnson said "if I've lost Cronkite, I've lost the country".
But, I don't know that I agree with you that Tet was an overwhelming victory for the US. I've read a lot of books on Viet Nam and almost all have agreed that it was a turning point for the war. Given the way the war was being fought and the rules we were fighting under, I have concluded that we could not win VN.
We were holding onto the idea that if we had overwhelming air support that we would automatically win.
I think the evidence pretty much show that the US has not done well in guerilla warfare. When you consider that at the time of Viet Nam, we were still using tactics that were developed under a "European conflict" mindset by the planners, it's not surprising.
It's really taken until just now that the planners are getting their heads around the small urban conflict -- Patreus is considered to be a "radical" thinker and it is his theories that current warfare is being planned around. A light, elite force. You notice we're not designing new tanks and such; the force of the future will rely heavily on sensor weaponry and UAVs.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Missed a big one
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Date:
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8/31/2009 4:07:56 PM
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I agree and my point was that like Korea, the war was being directed from Washington and you are right, under those circumstances we could not win.
I totally disagree with you about Tet. I have read several books that went into detail on Tet and it was a disaster for the VC and China from a purely military perspective. What happened was the media in the U.S. focused on the fact that they launched such a large operation and extrapolated this into a desire and ability for them to win militarily. At the time nothing was further from the truth but the war under Johnson and Nixon was so abysmally handled that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. One thing we learned is you cannot achieve military victory without boots on the ground and politicians only defining broad objectives and not deciding how many and what type of bombs to drop and where.
Anyway, my only point was that Cronkite was not perfect in holding fire with his liberal worldview but given the current journalistic landscape he appears that much better.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Missed a big one
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Date:
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8/31/2009 5:07:55 PM
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-Reference Vietnam, --I really hate to get into a Vietnam discussion, ...but I can't let some of teh above posts go without comment. I had two tours in Nam. My first started several months after Tet so I was not there, but worked with a lot of people who were. My second tour ended with me flying out on teh second to last plane that took out all the fighting troops on 23 mar 1973. So I was there fairly near the beginning of major operations and there for the end of it.
-From a military stand point Tet was a failure for the Viet Cong. Intell was available about the coming attacks. However, the intell missed as to teh intensity and the large scale of the attacks. Nevertheless, So many Viet Cong were killed during Tet and then hunted down and killed in the few months after TET, that the North had to start sending in North Vietnam troops to take the place of teh Cong and continue the war. I interrogated NVA from units that were captured because they lost their way since there were not enough VC left to guide them into the combat zones. The international media turned the fact that the VC were able to conduct such a large scale attack as a victory The fact that 90% of them died and had to be replaced by NVA troops from teh north should have been the story but was not.
-Tactics: by 1968, TET, Americans had been fighting in Nam for five years. By 1998, the tactics were not WWII tactics. Although there were a lot of tough battles, I believe the history that says we never lost a battle.. Duing my two tours, I never heard of a battle that we lost; at one period I had the assignment to go to firebases and verify bodycounts. There would be 400-500 NVA in, on, and around that wire, but they never took a firebase.
-Strategy: another thing entirely. That's where the war was lost. The strategy was waged from DC.
-Enough on Vietnam, yes, alot is open to interpretation, --but, let's just make sure we don't let the revisionists change the facts on us.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Y-06..........
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Date:
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8/31/2009 8:42:45 PM
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thanks for your perspective on this and all the issues you post on.......they are always thought provoking.......
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Missed a big one
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Date:
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9/1/2009 9:37:27 AM
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Thanks Yankee. That was my point exactly about Vietnam. Thanks for your service. My oldest brother was in the Navy in Vietnam on an aircraft carrier (the America). He didn't have the on the ground experience you had but often expressed great admiration for the infantry and always thought he had light duty compared to you guys.
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