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Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/27/2009 11:59:14 AM

-Does anyone know anything about the lake's flood level being raised from 522 to 524 feet. I was recently informed by my mortgage company that I was in a flood zone and have to buy flood insurance or they will buy it for me (they didn't tell me I had to have flood insurance when I took out my loan three years ago). Additionall, in looking for a surveyor to provide me a certificate of elevation to show I'm above the 522 line and thus do not have to have flood insurance, I've been told that the flood line is now 524. Also I've been told that a home owner has to buy flood insurance if the home is less than 2 feet above the flood line. Thus my home has to be above 526 feet. I have a surveyor coming today.
-However, I know that a lot of homes were built just above the 522 line. If the line has been moved to 524 and you need 2 feet above that, this means a lot of people are going to have to shell out significant money for flood insurance.
-Does anyone know if this info on a new 524 flood line is true and if so, -then when, why, and who changed it from 522 to 524?
-Thanks

Name:	Duncan -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/27/2009 1:32:27 PM

Let me refer you to lakes.alabamapower.com and to the Shoreline Management section, Smith Lake. There you will find the General Guidelines for Lewis Smith Lake Shoreline Permitting. You will find the water storage easement to be 522' not 524'. From what I understand there is a spillway at the dam that is set at elevation 522 and once the water hits that mark is goes over the spillway. I have been on the lake for 8 years and have noticed that Alabama Power does a very good job at flood control by running both turbines when we have had excess rain. The highest I have seen it was 518, and they pulled it down very quickly. I, like a lot of other folks wish they would raise the winter pool drawdown elevation, but thats another story. My house elevation is just over 522'. I do not have or need flood insurance. I think you are getting the run around by someone that wants to sell you some insurance. You may want to check with my insurance carrier howiefell@cottonstates.com. I do not have his phone number with me. He has an office in Curry which has a Farmer's Insurance sign on the highway. Hope this helps.

Name:	Bill -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/27/2009 2:47:54 PM

It hasn't been changed from 522 to 524.

Alabama Power lists 522 as the flood level. They will not allow you to build a permanent structure below 522.

However it is my understanding that FEMA has set 524 as the 100 year flood plane. If you are below 524 you may be required to purchase flood insurance. My bank required me to do it on my Lakeshore East lot. I THINK if you can get a certificate from a surveyor that will allow you to forgo the flood insurance but I don't know the specifics of that.

Name:	OnNTwo -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/28/2009 8:31:51 PM

I'm buying a house right now I'm going through all this #%&*%@. FEMA requires flood insurance if ANY PART of your lot is below the 522. So if your house sits at 540 but your lot slopes down to the lakeshore then they will require flood insurance on your home. STUPID! This was caused by Hurricane Katrina and all the losses. There is a process call a LOMA (Letter of Map Ammendment - $1500) which can be submitted to the US Corp of Engineers accompanied by a Certificate of Elevation provided by a licensed surveyor or engineer ($500 - $900) requesting your HOME structure be taken out of the flood zone. It'll take them 6 mo to a year to consider and research your request and they MAY grant your request or not. If so, you can then file with the insurance company to discontinue your flood insurance. There's even a company that will handle all of this for you for a fee. Here's there web site: http://www.floodzonespecialists.com/index.html You MAY have a shot of getting reimbursed for the flood premiums you've paid until all of this is approved. Good luck.

Name:	No Cat -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/30/2009 2:01:20 PM

You should probably spend some time at FEMA's website as I did a few years ago when deliberating the purchase of a home for which a portion was below the 524 mark (ultimately I passed on that home). I'm no expert, but the following comments are from my old notes:

For property within a Special Flood Hazard Area (Zone A), a lender is mandated to require flood insurance through the NFIP.

Based on the old 1991 flood maps for Smith Lake (available on FEMA's site), it appears that all lake property by default is in Zone A which FEMA currently defines as the 524 ft, 100 yr. flood mark. (I believe that FEMA allows for a 2ft headwall of water during flood conditions above APCo's 522 spillway.)

Some owners can request FEMA to amend the map to exclude their property from Zone A and it appears that FEMA grants the amendment if the lowest adjacent grade (per elevation certificate) exceeds the 524 mark. With the amendment, the mandated flood insurance requirement is waived (though a lender may still require at its discretion) and the owner can pursue a Preferred Risk Policy if desired.

This amendment process involves a Letter of Map Amendment (LOMA), and actual filed copies are viewable at FEMA's site for Smith Lake properties.

You might want to google "Lowest Adjacent Grade" (LAG) to find out the definition in the context of surveying for this purpose but the definition can include your basement as well as footings for a deck attached to your home.

Before requesting a formal elevation certificate, a regular survey of lakeshore property should have indications of both the 510' and 524' marks. If you are above the 524', this document alone may allow you to get a much lower-priced flood policy if still required by your lender or desired for peace of mind.

If your LAG is below 524, I doubt that you can successfully amend the map via an LOMA and I wouldn't waste the expense of an elevation certificate and application of the LOMA. Instead, find a good insurance agent that can work with the carrier and your specific circumstances to identify a reasonable solution. Perhaps you just have to install qualifying flood vents in your basement foundation walls, etc.

As noted above, I ultimately passed on the purchase of that specific property. It's LAG (corner of the basement as well as deck footings) was below 524 and the seller had not resolved the issue with the insurance carrier. The seller was paying $3-4,000 / year in flood insurance premiums! By comparison, the seller's neighbor was fully above 524 but only paid $300 / year in flood insurance and had not bothered with an LOMA or elevation certificate.

By the way, do not rely on the appraisal report on which the appraiser must indicate if Zone A. Most appraisers don't seem to understand the rules. All Smith Lake lakefront property is Zone A unless specifically amended by LOMA on a property by property basis.

Name:	OnNTwo -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/30/2009 5:29:51 PM

Wow! Great information for a newcomer to the lake. I'm putting this in my file.

Name:	No Cat -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/30/2009 5:51:50 PM

A few more notes that I found regarding the definition of Lowest Adjacent Grade:

The FEMA instructions instruct the surveyor to use a lower deck support as the lowest adjacent grade because of the potential for flood waters to rip off the deck which would cause damage to the primary structure.

Regarding basements, etc., proper flood vents can be added to minimize risk that hydrostatic pressure would collapse basement / foundation walls.

I recall that the elevation certificate required the surveyor to indicate the presence / quantity of flood vents when part of the primary structure was below the 524 mark. Smart Vents is at least one company that advertises FEMA-approved vents and their website is pretty informative as to how such vents work.

Good luck. This can be very frustrating and potentially expensive. We ultimately passed on what was otherwise a perfect lake home because I just couldn't get comfortable with the risk. My primary concern was resale value. Even if I didn't finance the home and thus could personally choose to forego flood insurance, all successive buyers would potentially discount the home value by the present value of the annual flood premiums to be paid into perpetuity.

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/31/2009 12:16:05 AM

-Thanks to everyone above for your information. Very helpful. I guess that's what this forum is all about.

-I did have the survey done, and my home, deck, etc. is above the 524 mark. Now I must do as noted above with FEMA, the loan company, and the insurance company. Based on what I learned from the loan company, I may end up paying several months of flood insurance while FEMA screws around with the LOMA. Si-i-i-i-i-igh.....
-Anyway, thanks again

Name:	OnNTwo -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/31/2009 8:52:02 AM

Can the LOMA be done yourself or will a surveyor need to do it?

Name:	No Cat -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/31/2009 1:20:05 PM

See below link for the forms and instructions. At a minimum, you will need to attach the elevation certificate that has been signed / certified by either a Licensed Land Surveyor or Registered Professional Engineer.

http://www.fema.gov/library/viewRecord.do?id=2328

Name:	No Cat -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	7/31/2009 1:28:54 PM

I would first work with an appropriate insurance agent to determine if you qualify for a preferred risk policy without having to specifically amend the flood maps to exclude your property from Zone A. If so, the premium might not be excessive and you may decide to pay the premium (with added peace of mind) rather than incur the cost of amendment.

Floodsmart.gov is the website for the NFIP that provides some basic info on policies / rates for different Zones (A, etc.) and presumably lists the carriers that participate in the national flood insurance program.

Name:	mcbreeden -	Reply
Subject:	Flood Level 524?
Date:	8/11/2009 11:01:25 AM

Aren't there such things as grandfathered-in clauses anywhere here? I'd rather not bring this stuff to light right now, I couldn't afford the surveyor to start with right now, then the rest of it all.

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