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Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	9/29/2005 10:09:49 PM

Dear folks,
I need Your help. Talledga wants to put up a bridge across the lake at Perkings landing.
We are getting together a group of People who are against this.
If You are AGAINST them putting up a Bridge Please contact Me and I will let You know what We are doing to put a stop to this.

Thank You.
Contender

Name:	Martins Cove -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	9/30/2005 12:45:13 AM

Contender,
Why are you opposed to this bridge? For those of us with interests on the Talladega and Coosa side of the lake, this bridge is not only a welcome bit of easier acces to our property but is also a job creator as well as broadens the tax base through increased property values as well as sales taxes from businesses such as mine. I can't see any reason that any one would be opposed to building a bridge that connects two existing roads that are sparsely populated and will have minimal environmental impact, if any.
As is stated in filings with the shelby county circuit court, the main opposition is from Columbiana and it's fear of increased traffic which I find quite ironic in that they just produced a film wanting more visitors. I guess when the rubber meets the road (pun fully intended), they really don't want visitors, just their money, then want them to go away.
Please explain your position to me because it's been my experience that increased traffic tends to increase property values and every one wins when they decide to sell. I would be surprised to hear that you wouldn't want more money in your pocket. Is it the increased traffic? Would this directly affect you? I can't imagine all that much more traffic than when Paradise point holds a tournament and trucks with trailers line the road beginning at 2 a.m. Most loggers I know quit before sundown each day so log trucks at night couldn't be the problem. Besides, they're commonplace on State road 145 which is less than 2 miles from the water via County 28.
I sit and wonder with amazement at what your reasons for opposing such a bridge could be but please let me know so I'll know how to counter your position when the letter writing campaign begins from all of us with interests on "the other side" (I.E. us red-headed stepchildren)of the lake.
Sincerely
James Olliff
Owner
Martins Cove on Lay (Come join us "down at the river")
Lay Lake HOBO Member
Peckerwood Creek/Ida Station Homeowner's association member
Alabama Water Watch Official Test Site

URL: Martins Cove

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	9/30/2005 11:15:42 PM

Dear Olliff,
I can see why You would like a bridge, You being an owner of a store.
This would mean money to You.
I am Opposed to the bridge because of the Environmental impact. You say it will be minimal, I believe you are wrong. When you go putting weight on top of Caverns they will crack and then what will you have?
Can you tell me that something like that will not affect The Desoto Caverns??? This would be a bad disaster. Do You know that both Dams Logan martin and Lay are built on top of caverns and Logan Martin's Dam is in trouble all the time for leaks because of caverns? Something like this could happen.
You go and put the Bridge supports in they will create a disturbance in the bottom of the lake where the Pollutant Chemicals have settled down for years. The pollution will rise and the fish will die, the Press will report it and it will take Years for the pollution to settle back down. It will take longer for the press to settle down.
The Tourist's will stop coming to Lay for a long time! We all will lose income because of this and the property value will go way down. This will not be good for anybody.
This is the least that can happen.

After the Bridge is up you will have Trash and who knows what flying off the Bridge into the River adding pollution to the River. Not to think of the noise of the traffic all day and night echoing down the River disrupting the Peace and Serenity.
I moved away from the city and those noises, now You want them here?
That's SAD!
Also you have another obstacle in the River for boaters to watch out for. Hitting a Bridge support could kill a boater and His passengers.
Besides there are enough bridges already, you make a shortcut you will cut somebody off, they will lose business. That will hurt them. Have You thought of them? Not everyone wins. The rich get Richer, US poor get Poorer!
You tell Me that the Property values would go up, SO will your taxes and your value will not go up that much in our life time to see the benefits, but will be taxed because of it. The value you will see will be when you sell your land, and then where will you go? Somewhere peaceful and Serene. We have It NOW Don't fix it IT IS NOT BROKEN!
Shelby Co. property values will not go up, they will go down if anything. But that is not the issue.
There is enough development on this Lake already. We do Not need anymore. I have seen what Logan Martin look's like, do You want that?
I do not. We have enough boats, Homes, Business on this Lake to enjoy,
Please let’s enjoy it as it is. We Don't have enough Trees, We don’t have enough space, Peace, Tranquility, Ducks, Dears, Owls, Where are just now getting back Bald Eagles Think about the Bald Eagles.... Is that not great or what? We are getting Them Back! Let's not lose them again!
A Bridge will cut the Lake in half that alone could run off the Bald Eagle!
I don't like that Idea a bit!

Your are right when you say that I don't want Their Money, It can not buy the Beauty of Lay Lake back once the Damage is done to Her.
Their money will not bring back Peace and Quiet once the Damage is done to Her.
Their Money will not buy the Serenity back once the Damage is done to Her.
You talk about the logger, they will run away, they make money buy the mile; they don't want a short cut, that's a cut in pay.
County Road can’t handle the stress of more traffic. Columbia is not a good site for logging trucks. Five cars at the intersection in the middle of town and you will have a traffic jam. I hate to think of what a logging truck would do to our small city.
I do not want MORE logging trucks on Shelby's side than we have already
It's not because of them; It's about the cars that don't know how to act around them that makes a Danger! They go 70 mph or better down Hwy.145
Now put a logging Truck in their way. O Boy. No Sir We do not need more Logging trucks or cars.
Talladega collected taxes behind the backs of everybody for this Bridge.
WHY? Do all of You want a Bridge? Are Your Schools in good order? Are all your roads paved? Are all your homes protected with fire Hydrants?
Are all You People protected with enough Firepersons?
Are all You People protected with enough police?
Did you know that Talladega wants to pay for improvements in Shelby Co.?
There are better ways that Talladega can spend this money beside a bridge that just make the RICH get RICHER!!!! And takes away the Beauty of the Lady. Please Leave Lay Lake Alone!!!
You are not a Redheaded stepchild, we know each other by water and by the Bridges that we have already. I shop in Sylacauga allot already, I don’t want the bridge!
We Love Ya. But We LOVE The Lady of the Lake more.
Lay Lake is to be the way She should be. Let the Eagle Fly Free.
Contender
Water tester
Homeowner on Lay Lake

Name:	Martins Cove -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/12/2005 12:39:52 AM

Contender,
Your response, for the most part, is not valid. I will categorically respond to each of your points. Also, for the record, I do not run a shop. I run a rental lake house geared toward fishers and golfers in Coosa County. I'm one of the few actually bringing out of state and in-state tourists to the area.
1. Caverns. The majority of Shelby County is one big cavern formed by the underground water dripping through the predominant rock, limestone. You say that Desoto would be affected and that bothLAY and Logan Martin dams are built on top of caverns. Why does Lay dam not have any problems? Logan Martin's problems are mainly due to the fact that Alabama Power chose to ignore the Corps of Engineers and build Logan Martin Dam where they wanted to, not where the bedrock was solid like the corps recommended. I would like to know what engineering study of the area you are basing your assertions on. As I understand it, there hasn't been one conducted as of yet but will have to be before building could begin.
2. You have a valid point about disturbing the sediment and stirring up latent PCBs. However, fish don't usually die from PCBs, especially in massive kills like you seem to be alluding to. The EPA, through previous superfund projects, has become quite adept at removing the contaminated sediment with no adverse effects. This could also be done at this site before pilings are built, thus eliminating any argument about PCB levels. As to the tourists stopping, they already have because the fish aren't safe to eat as it is right now (Al Dept. of Health consumption advisories www.state.al.us) This lake is already widely known to be contaminated and those who are going to avoid it already are. PCBs are a human carcinogin that we acquire from eating the fatty parts of fish where the fish tend to store the PCBs they consume. The fish are currently not safe to eat but they're not dead, are they? I find the majority of this argument to be bunk. Also, increased trash should be less of a concern to you than the multitudes of illegal dumps all along the lake that are daily polluters of the lake. I can't see that much more trash than the tournament fishers already lose on any given day when 200 boats are on the water.
3. Peace and serinity/ Disturbing eagles.
What peace and serenity? And how is a bridge, 20 miles from the next nearest bridge, going to eliminate any habitat except for the square footage of the pilings? Noise? Have you not heard the throngs of bass boats with 225's on the back screaming up and down the river all hours of the day? I'm assuming, because of your handle, that you are one of these boaters. No, the noise from this bridge couldn't possibly compare to what already exists when 500 boats are turned out of one marina.
Eagles, which are predatory birds, usually are not thwarted by noise but rather loss of habitat. I lived in Central Florida where a mating pair of bald eagles had their nest less that 100 ft from the 520 (beeline), a major highway between Cape Canaveral and Orlando. They returned each year to mate with trucks going by at 70 mph. This is a pretty common scenario. Predatory animals tend to be much more adaptive to conditions as long as they have enough sustainable habitat.
4. Obstacles
If they can dodge the millions of stick ups, a bridge piling with lights on it shouldn't be too difficult to navigate around. If they can't, they probably don't need to be driving a boat in the first place. Millions of boats do the same thing every single day all across the world, including on the ONLY bridges that cross the main channel of Lay Lake, US 280 and the paralell train bridge. Lets see, 50 mile long lake, 1 bridge. Hmmm, yeah, that sounds like plenty of bridges. PLEASE. And no, the southern end of lay doesn't have a bridge, it's over Mitchell below the dam.
5. businesses losing
I don't forsee Wal-Mart coming to Fayetteville, AL, where the bridge would connect to, any time in the near future. I think the population is 500, maybe 1000. No, businesses would mainly be helped and maybe the bar would be raised in the quality of businesses. It's a simple fact of life, compete in business, or perish. Darwinism applied to business isn't such a bad thing. You should embrace it, not fear it. See also #4 about distances between bridges. About 20 miles in case you forgot.
6.Property taxes/property values/ services.
I don't know any one in the world, save you, that doesn't want to see the value of their typically single largest lifetime investment grow through market values rising. Yes, property values will be reassessed and taxes will increase. However, for a solid dollar figure, with a homestead exemption in Coosa County where my business is located, I would pay $300 per year. I don't have the homestead exemption, because I reside in Shelby County, and my taxes are $520 per year. That's $500 per year on an acre of lakefront property with a 3 bedroom house and a 2 slip enclosed boat house. Two trips to wally-world for groceries and I've spent more than my annual taxes which, by the way, are the lowest in the country. If we doubled, yes doubled, our property taxes we still wouldn't catch up to the next cheapest state, Mississippi. Whether you want to realize it or not, thanks to ALFA we get pitiful schools and incredibly cheap property taxes! I have friends who wanted to know if that's what we paid PER MONTH!
As for services, No, I don't have a paved road, my nearest volunteer fire department is 12 volunteer fire department miles away (along the dirt and semi-paved but heavy logging use roads) , and I don't think you'll be seeing a Rhoades scholar coming from this side of the river in the near future. Coosa County is one of the poorest counties in the state and in the nation. Looking for opportunity? Yep, these people are every single day.
As for police protection. Let's just say I needed them one night, called 911, and 2.5 hours later they still hadn't showed up. I slept with the shotgun next to me that night. Don't know if they ever showed up because the person I got at the sheriff's dept. was one of three on duty that Friday night FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTY!
Fire hydrants? Yep, the pump I have sunk in the lake will work as one in a pinch. However, see above about fire protection.
7. I think you are horribly misinformed about the bridge funding. No taxes have been collected. The group funding the bridge is private and the funding is all private. Yes, that means it will be a private bridge, or a toll bridge, to pay for the construction and maintenanace. So yes, this group does want to improve the Shelby side as well. So, let's see, no cost to you, improved access for me, increased property values for both of us with a minimal environmental impact. Sounds like a no-brainer to me.
8. The rich keep getting richer and the poor poorer?
Please. I tend to agree with Neal Boortz's observations on that subject. Being poor is, for the most part, a self-inflicted mental disease characterized by a tendency to blame every one else for your problems instead of being self-reliant and self-motivated. I refer you to your fear of paying for taxes on your property as the value of your investment increases due, in no part, to your efforts to make the value rise. It's a fear of wealth that's bothering you, not some bridge that I see as an economic opportunity, not an economic depleater. That argument is really grasping at straws.

Whether you want it to or not, development is coming this direction. It has, in the past, simply bypassed those with their collective heads in the sand, and left them wondering where their share of the economic pie was. They didn't want it and quite frankly, don't deserve it if they shun the opportunities it brings.
I think, instead of being a reactive protester, the more prudent course would be to be proactive by embracing development and guiding it with controls, usually refer

URL: Lay Lake Vacations

Name:	RUSTY -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/12/2005 10:08:24 PM

I currently live in Pensacola and own a lot on Lay Lake. I hope this bridge gets built ASAP. I can't see any negatives coming from it. I assume you are talking about the old ferry landing. I intend to build my retirement home there in about 8 or 9 more years.

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/14/2005 6:01:04 PM

Dear Rusty, I hope You like alot of noise, triffic, logging truck going by, and also fertilizer trucks flying by, because that's is what You will have.
No Peace and quite. When You want to go sone where You'll be runover by Big trucks. Do worry they will put up a new Wal-Mart at Your back door.
Good luck.
Contender

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/14/2005 6:14:47 PM

Dear Martin cove,
I know You know, No it will not cost You any thing in taxes as it does talladega. You are the golf corse of pass that was not open to the public but was to the higher up. DId not want to do with anyone else. Just the people with money. I am in the middle of repling to Your letter,I just wanted to clear the air a bit.
Talladega is in with Shelby not Coosa. Your Bridge is 20 miles away.
this bridge will be about 45 miles away from You. It will not Help You one bit. The golfers that come 300 miles to play will not notice a 5min short cut in You mind.
You have a letter comming! It will be to You soon.

Contender.

Name:	Martins Cove -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/18/2005 7:54:06 PM

Contender,
This bridge will be approximately 8 miles from my location. I am located straight across from Okomo Marina...IN COOSA COUNTY. I'll be looking forward to your next rant and dribble, er, letter about killing animals and peace and quiet with a 30 ft wide piece of steel and concrete over a 50 mile long lake. Lets see, for the math impaired that would make the bridge about, oh, let's see, 1/10000 the length of the lake. Get your pitchforks, boys, they're using up ALL the eagle habitat!!! Give me a break.

Rusty, I hope this bridge gets built before you're retired and moving this way. Hell, I hope it gets built before I'm retired which is about 30 years away. According to last Wednesday's Birmingham News, it's being appealed to the appellate court and will probably make it's way up to the Alabama Supreme Court.

URL: Come join us down at the river...but you'll have to go the long way around!

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/18/2005 10:33:20 PM

Dear Sir,
Foresight is better that no sight, If You open up a bridge They are going to send Fertilizer truck across, If one truck were to wreck and the contents were to fall into the lake it would do so much Damage to the Environment of Lay Lake and on down river. Just think what that impact would be.
Fish will die, plants will die, Birds will die, The Bald Eagle will, well You know. All over a short cut. It is not worth it.
Your cabin as advertised is out of the buzy way but close to a place.
You of all people want to change that?
A little out of Your way is Peace to a lot of others. What about the People where the bridge will go up at? I am sure they will suffer. People going by will never care about the Lay Lake, People who live here DO and always will!!! I will Fight the Bridge all My life! So Help Me God!
Contender

Name:	Sun Shimmers -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/18/2005 11:03:40 PM

Just drifting by and noticed your discussions concerning the bridge. My belief is that most people in South Shelby County have little reason to need additional automobile or truck access to Talladega or Coosa County. It obviously will benefit the lawyers who have purchased the land relatively cheaply for condominiums on the now remote areas not easily accessible by the backroads of Talladega County. "What lies we weave when first we practice to deceive."

How could property values in Shelby County maintain, much less increase, with more property available for development? Seems to me the Shelby County property will hit a slump in value for ten to twenty-five years while the whole area grows in population and pollution.

Have you fellows ever spent much time on Lake Logan Martin in St. Clair County??? The congestion has exploded to the point there are no longer quiet fishing coves or safe places to ski and enjoy water sports due to the heavy boat and personal watercraft traffic. We are right in line for this type of congestion with overzealous, unregulated development. It sounds as though it's everyone for themselves. Let's share and uncover the truth before pointing fingers! Enjoy our paradise while it lasts!

Name:	RUSTY -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/23/2005 8:07:43 PM

I like Wal-Mart

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/23/2005 10:46:35 PM

Rusty, I used to but They are putting all the ma&pop hardware shops out of Business. That sound like I way out in left field, but You can go to a old hardware shop and find alot a stuff that is made in the U.S.A. and that things that You old homes are made of. You go to fix something and You can find it at Wal-mart, You are stuck, You have to replace alot of things that will cost You in the long run and take up more time. As a Local Hardware store can either have it in stock or order it for You. You go to Wal- mart and ask them to order You something or even to check in the back stock for something. You will get the same anwser NO WE CAN"T , NO W E DON"T HAVE ANY. and they give up and walk off. You can ask a local hardware dealer if He does not have it or can't order it, where You might find it and He will try to help,He will even call in someone else to see if They know. That's service. Wally-world You are on Your on.
The biggest thing I hate about wally -world is they are putting the United States of America's People OUT of business. Go look at all the stuff.
all of it is Made in China. China Is building up a Armed Force that's Bigger, Better than the U.S.A. They have been studying us for Years. They are watching us now in Iraq and Afghan. My question is Why? And Yet We are funding them to do it......... Buy Your stuff from China and Help them.
Just take down Your American flag if You have one. People have better wake UP!!! what did 9-11 tell You??? Hello anyone home?
You are living in Fl. Why not stay there???. they have Wal-marts! K-marts
Marts -R -us! It sounds perfect for You. You sound perfect for Fl.
Please Take Care and May God Bless You And Yours.
Contender ( Not a Boat Person who distribs Creeks)

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/23/2005 10:49:12 PM

Name:	Martins Cove -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/25/2005 1:40:20 AM

Look, it's real simple. This bridge isn't making any one, save Mr. Pursell, rich. I live in Alabaster and to tend to my business, my side business, it is 63 miles each direction, door to door. This bridge would cut out approx. 30 miles of that trip. I also have people who stay with us that come from points South. This bridge cuts off approximately 30 miles of travel for them as well. Your assertion that it saves 5 minutes on County roads is, at best, a gross understatement. I've also got some more news for you. The fertilizer trucks are ALREADY crossing Lay Lake on US 280. This bridge is not a convenient shortcut, down county roads, for those trucks because they have a federal highway they are already using and it is quicker than this proposed route.

Far away IS a good thing, but 20 miles from any where is a bit of a struggle for anyone. My regular complaint from guests is "jeez, if I'd known it was this far, I'd have packed a lunch". They ALL ask "Isn't there a shorter/quicker way there?"
As for your assertion to the haves and the have nots, it would seem to me that the Shelby residents are the haves and the Talladega/Coosa residents are currently the have nots. They have raised the money for a bridge but Shelby doesn't want them to have the opportunities a bridge would provide.

I guess it would be more likely, using your logic, that a truck would wreck on a 35 mph, 2 lane toll bridge than on a bridge, 20 miles upstream thus causing even more ecological damage if a spill were to occour, that is 4 lanes and 65 mph.

Why not help get our archaic state constitution re-written so that Counties can have home rule AND could impose and enforce zoning. This would allow the foresight you speak of to occour through PLANNED development instead of wild-west land grabs for trailer space as is occouring right now. My deed has covenants that restrict buildings to 1700 sf or larger and only 1 per lot (approx 1 acre per lot). Why not encourage this type of restrictions from developers then the bridge becomes a moot point of simple access for those who need it to their uncrowded properties?
Like I said, it's real simple. Give the access but plan for and restrict the development. It's a workable compromise that protects the lake but allows economic growth. Every one wins. Lake property, if you haven't noticed, is a HOT commodity throughout the US. There is also a housing bubble that, according to Greenspan, isn't such a bubble after all. This translates into every one's property values increasing along the lake albeit some more than others because of a lack of easy access. The Cahaba river has a bridge every 2-3 miles. Lay has one every 50 miles. Where's the logic in that? It's not roads that destroy habitat and streams, it's the increased, virtually unregulated development. Your approach is "don't give 'em the road so they can't get there and maybe they won't develop". My approach is to enact barriers that limit growth to a reasonable rate, thus providing a reasonable solution for every one involved.

I guess there will always be those like you that just oppose change in general and that's unfortunate. A friend once told me, and i believe it to be very true, that "on this earth the only constant is change itself".

Contender, I guess it's ok that you decided to take up space along the river but it's, according to your arguments, not a good thing when others want to do the same as you did, just on the other side. The day you can tell me that you have to drive, literally, 20 miles, 2 of which are pure dirt, to the nearest grocery store is the day I'll accept that it's just 5 more minutes that we'll be saving. Lifesaver helicopter is the best medical care we can hope for because the Alexander City hospital isn't exactly a level 1 trauma center. Ic ould go on, but I would hope you get the point by now.
A bridge is needed. It's not just a convenience for the so-called rich, it's a community and economic lifeline for those of us on the other side of the river.

URL: stuck in bridge purgatory

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/25/2005 11:14:34 PM

Sir, If It is as simple as You put it, Why not build the bridge where they tore down the Rail Road at Okomo. That would put it at Your door, You would be 1 min. away from Your get away side business. You could direct traffic The way You like. You could go to work at Your regular business and pop over to check in on Your side business. I am sure that all the people that You bring in from all over the state would thank You for making it more convenient for them to to business with You at Your side Business Location. This is closer than the propose site and would be better for You. Because after all, all Your cares in Your letters are only about You.
I have talked to the People on the other side where the Bridge will go in at and guess WHAT?? THEY don't want the Bridge either!
What TellYou that it is going to be a Toll bridge??? Talladega have put a tax on Theirown People, with out them knowing that it is for a bridge, They already have the money to build the bridge and also do improvements on Shelby Co. side. Think about that. Talladega wants to spend money in Shelby Co.Money that They have Taxed there People to do.
I would not want Shelby Co.to spend any money in Talladega. Not My TaxMoney.
I don't want shelby Co. to spend any of My tax money to help Talladega.AndI
I will vote everbody out of office if they do. I will also put a suit against it.
You talk about Your taxes. where are You Anyway?? First You say You are on the Lake on shelby side, then You say You live in Alabaster???? I did not know that there was a house with an acre of water front in Alabaster....
Then You tell Me that the trucks are going to go 35 MPH.
Again I ask How do You know this???? The 280 bridge the the trucks are going on now are wider than the New Bridge will ever be. The 280 bridge is a State Reglated Bridge. The one going to be built Will not be. This can be unsafe.
A two way Bridge will be a disaster ready to happen.
One drunk driver illegally passing a car on the bridge, the oncoming Fertilazer Truck tries to dodge it , swerves and hits the bridge and over it goes..........You stand a better chance on a four way/ two lane bridge going one way, Just like the 280 Bridge is.
Ok The trucks are over the lake safely, they are going through the Little Town of Columbiana...... Colombiana is too small to handle 18Wheelers!
They can't move the Buildings... Wait Iam sorry We are talking about a short cut for Your side business, We can move the buildings.
We can over look the truck spillage, We can over look the noise that will drive the Bald Eagles away. We can over look the pollution the traffic will bring, We can over look the drop in our property values. We canover look the fish kill. We can over look everthing because You are talking about Progress RIGHT????
I will not OVERLOOK ANY THING THAT WILL HURT THIS LADY!
LADY LAY LAKE!!!!
If You want toHurt the lady. Guess what? I WILLBE AGINST YOU!!
Contender

Name:	Martins Cove -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/26/2005 10:15:43 PM

You know, save for the length, cost, and engineering calamity putting the bridge where the old railroad was, that would be just fine with me. However, Coosa County doesn't currently have paved roads (remember?) at that location and the bridge would be approximately 3 times as long. Per your reasoning, this would increase the risk, 3 times to be exact, of boats hitting the bridge, trucks falling over, fish being killed, and eagles having to duck their heads so they don't knock them on pilings! Yeah, let's make it even worse than what you summise will happen.
For the record, I LIVE in Alabaster, my BUSINESS is in Coosa County. It's the same concept as LIVING in SHELBY COUNTY and COMMUTING to JEFFERSON COUNTY. Same concept, different direction.

Also, you really need to check your facts about funding. Talladega County Government hasn't raised a single penny in funds for this project. They didn't create a secret double probation tax behind every one's back. The Talladega County Economic Development Council (a PRIVATE entity) raised all of the PRIVATE funds for this bridge. They offered the improvements on the Shelby side as an olive branch for people just like yourself, thus costing you not a single tax dollar. Get that? FREE, GRATIS, NADA OUTCHA POCKET. In other words, they'll make your county road better at no cost to you or your friends.

As to the rest of your dribble about me being selfish. Yes, I am when it comes to saving my personal money in gas and time and increasing my puny profit to a point where I'm totally self-sufficient. Now you, on the other hand, seem pretty vindictive when it comes to helping your neighbor to help themselves up. So really, who's the one who's selfish? me trying to make a living or you trying to make it as difficult as possible for me to make a living?

At least get your facts straight before you have another rant, dude. You might just blow a gasket and I'd hate to see something like that happen over incorrect information. However, seeing you blow one over the correct information, well now, that might be fun!

Hey, I bet you were real glad to see the ferries go away back in the seventies and I bet the day they exploded the train bridge pilings, God I would have loved to see your giddy face as progress went backwards. I bet you even sang "Oh happy day" that day! Maybe we should dismantle those polluting marinas too because it's possible they might have a gas spill one day. Hey, here's one for you. You should check out Charles Manson's web site. You both have a lot of the same philosophies about overcrowding and overpopulation and environmental protection. http://www.charliemanson.com/ Charlie don't surf...but he's got a web site!

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/26/2005 11:37:35 PM

You Talk about getting the Facts right .You Don't know where You live!
Look in Your past leters, You tell everybody that You have a 3 bedroom house and a 2 slip enclosed boat house. Then You live in Alabaster! and You have The nerve to compare Me to Charles Manson??? You even know of His web site? I would have never known that He had a web site, Is He one Of Your heroes?
Mister You are totallly way off about the funding of the Bridge, It is You who that needs to get the facts straight. They already have the Money in the bank to do it, and it is drawing interest.The tax has been in effect for a long time. Have You every wander why the sell tax in Talladega ia as high as Hoover? No I guess that kind of business stuff just goes right over Your head. I would thougt that since You have alot of time driving back and forth, You would have thought of it, You must just listen to the Music.
I do not want Talladega to help pay Shelby Co. do any of our road improvements. Yhey need to fix their schools, pay their police, Pave their own roads, Build their own Hospital, Etc. HEY that way They don't need Shelby Co so it can grow.
All Talladega wants is a short cut to Hwy 65 . That is it in a nut shell.
You are wrong when You said I was selfish, You have had that business for what ? a while? You knen where it was, didn't You ? or did that also go right over Your business head? If You Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Your ad says, its out of the way, Why not let it stay out of the way?
Helping My Neighbors is not selfish, I don't want to see their property value go down! And it will go down!!! The nice Homes that they are just now putting up will but wourthless.Yes I will pick them ( alot of people)over You and Your SIDEbusiness. what is the rush to get over there anyway? to cut the grass??? You are the selfish one.
I was said when the Ferries closed, It was a nice rideacross a nice River.
It was nice and slow, You had time to think, look around at nature, take in fresh air. Yes I miss the ferries, I wish they could come back.
As far as the R&R it had to go. It was out of business!!!!! It was at lake level You could not go under or over it, Like I said the Railroad Co. was out of business!!! Does it make good business since to keep it up, and to pay to maintain it???? It doesn't to Me. May be You would like to buy a Railaoad?? As A fact i work with Shelby Iron works. Do You know what they Do???
Dr y up, cool off, and Try to think of others besides YOURSELF and then have the never to call people names. I know You called a friend, the lake pimp, and because I stand up for a lot of People, I am selfish...LOL
Mister You have been driving too long. Rolldown the windows and get some fresh air. Maybe that will help. God I pray it will. I'll will pray for You .
Please take Care.
Contender

Name:	Martins Cove -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/29/2005 1:43:00 AM

You know, Tim's a friend of mine as well. There's no need to bring him into this. He doesn't have a dog in this fight unless he wants to bring one in.
Apparently you didn't read the entire thread where I explained where the term came from. Since you obviously didn't see it there, it was from an old man whose been dead a year now. And yes, I not only responded to Tim in the forum, I also talked to him about it. It was a good natured jab.

Call me what you want and yes, you're right, we (those of us with interests on the other side since you seem to be wrapped up in symantics) do want a shortcut. That's what bridges usually do, they provide a shortcut, a shorter route, a shorter way for people to get from one place to another. They provide a shorter route for increased business and movement of goods from manufacturer to customer. They make it easier for customers to get to a business. They provide better access for all purposes. This is the very nature of a bridge, a shortcut. To where really doesn't matter.

Most large lakes in the United States have a bridge every 20-30 miles at a minimum and they suffer no ill effects from them or the goods that cross them daily (Tennessee River is an excellent example, Eagles nesting 1/4 mile from the US 431 bridge at Guntersville State Park). This lake is no different except that it has 1 bridge in 50 miles. If the ferry was so good, then why would a bridge be so bad? It's using the same existing roads the ferry did and providing the same passage. I know, I know, noise scaring eagles and fertilizer spilling every where. I guess the diesel fumes, noise, and oily water were much better with the ferry.

The facts are the facts. It's a private group that has acquired the private funding. It is a private bridge proposal. Talladega County government has not levied a tax for the bridge. Even if they had, it would have to have been voted on. So, using your argument, the people must have agreed to this additional tax on themselves through their votes. But I guess they could never have done that because nobody on the Talladega side, according to you, even wants this bridge. No, they want to stay in 1960 while the world passes them by. It's easier that way, you know.

As for property values, more traffic means more property value, no matter which side you're on. This is another simple fact. For sale, right this minute, is 155 acres just South of the proposed bridge location on the Talladega side. It has 1.25 miles of shoreline with 2 sloughs. The asking price? 2.2 million. That's $14193.54 PER ACRE. That's speculating on the bridge being built. Land that a few years ago was worth maybe $1500-$2000 an acre is now $14000 an acre.That's pretty impressive, a 600% increase in market value for something that's not even built yet and has no existing acces to the road nor utilities run. Wonder what that farm land on the Shelby side right where the road already exists is currently worth? I bet it's a LOT higher than it was 5 years ago judging by the comps. Nah, I guess values will go way down though...you're right.

Keeping the lake clean is good for every one. It can be done in harmony with development as long as there's prudent planning. However, I guarantee you're not going to stop development, bridge or not. It's quite pointless to get so worked up about it. As I keep saying, why not plan for it and control it when it does come...and it's coming. In fact, it's coming more in Shelby County than most other places in the Southeast except Charlotte, NC. So, in reality, bridge or not, your worst nightmare is staring you right in the face...more people wanting on the lake and no controls on the growth through proper planning. Without the bridge, they pile up like lemings on the Shelby side with no place to go. Hmmm.

You hear that strange popping noise? It's a paradign shifting...without a clutch. In a hurry to mow the grass...that's a witty one. Thank you sir, may I have another!

Name:	RUSTY -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/30/2005 9:18:18 PM

Well Sir, no offense meant but you do sound like a very confused individual. To start with, WalMart is not a hardware store and carries very little hardware compared to any Mom&Pop hardware store. Any small time Mom and Pop store is going to be put out of business if they do not keep up with the times and progress. Progress is what leaves them behind, not Walmart. I know I live in the land of luxury here in Pensacola where we have Home Depot, Lowes, and a large number of Mom&Pop stores that still compete with Walmart because they did not just sit on their duff and watch the world go buy.

I don't know what 9-11 had to do with China, but you are right about one thing. They have been watching us. They are watching how we grow as a country and are implementing some of the great technological advances we use. One of the main reasons the price of concrete and gasolene has gone up so much recently is because of China's growth. This is good for the oppressed chinese people. They are still a communist regime but yes they are learning from watching us. It has no bearing in Iraq or Afghanistan. As far as the Chinese building an Armed Force greater than ours, You sir, honestly do not have a clue about what you are talking about. I spent 21 years in the greatest Military in the world and there is NO OTHER COUNTRY that can compare with out military. Maybe instead of me taking down National Ensign, you should put one up. You are the type of person that tries to stand in the way of any type of progress unless it directly benefits you.

I grew up in Sylacauga until I joined the military and retired here in Pensacola because that is where work was. When I retire from my second career I plan on building my dream home there on Lay Lake and I hope by then there is a bridge connecting Talladega and Shelby Counties. I was fortunate enough to have a father that taught me how to fish on Lay Lake and the old Cedar Creek before the back up. I may be a little slow, but I don't understand how property values can possibly go down in Shelby County if a bridge is built. Have a nice day.

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	10/30/2005 9:29:32 PM

You are Right if Tim wants to get in He will. You were insentive to call Him that in the first Place. I know Tim. He is a very nice and senitive Person who is respcted by a lot of people.People who would not call Him what You did, Not funny.. You just got caught. It hurt His fellings, But You will never know, Tim is above You! He is a Hard worker for Alabama Power and does a Super Job! ! I will defend My Friend.

That aside. Mr. Great Business Man, You don't seen to read what I send to You, At least Not all of it .You said I was right about You being wrapped up in Your own Money ventures. You got That right! You just go off the path when You start including other PEOPLE, like the ones who LIVE ON THE LAKE, NOT in Alabaster who has grass to cut in Coosa Co.

I am sorry to tell You this, but I can't find Anybody on Shelby Co. side who give a flip about Your Sidebisiness on Cossa Co. and You needing a shortcut to get to it. There are More who do NOT want the bridge, and You can find Them on both sides Shelby Co and Talladega Co. Coosa co. does not have a dog in this race, They didn't put up any Money. This project is on the backs of the Tax payers of Talladega CO. I have proof Of that from the dept.of Transportation of Alabama.
Please Let Me know what symantics means.I can not find it in any Dictionary, Hard bound or online, I know My spelling is bad but What is symantics ???

Sir, I don't care about what You say about all the other Lakes in the United States, I want to take Care of Lay before She winds up like every other lake in the U.S.A.! Get It ??? This Lake does not need another Bridge. Columbiama has a nice Golf course.We don't need to cross the river at that point.

You keep on saying that the bridge is a private group who has acuired the private funding. BUT You could not be furter from the truth. It was a tax put on the People of Talladega. A 2cent sells tax. And guess what??
No Sir, They had No clue that they were going to build a bridge with the money. They were budded. Have You notice that No one was talking about the " BRIDGE" . It was the best keep secret In Talladega Co.

The only way The People of Shelby Co. found out about it was when We went to war over the water Shelby Co. needed. Thats when Talladgea Co held it over our heads. A bridge for the Water.

Shelby Co. took Talladgea Co. to Court and won. We got the water. the land is tied up in court.

If You don't belive Me, Do so of Your business type work and Call the Dept of Transportation of Alabama I'LL even give You their
1-334-242-6311
Joe McInnes Is the Transportation Director. or at least He was as of sept of 2003.
I have a letter from Him telling Me that Alabama Is and will not spend any money on this project.

Sir I don't know Where on Earth You come up with the figures on property
value. They can put a price on anything... Has it sold for that price??? that's the question. And as far as the property values on Shelby Co. they will go down. You can bank on that. would You want to spend $300.000.00 for a house that looks at a bridge? Well maybe You would because You say that's progress,and You understand the Business way.

It may be comming But I will fight it until I die.

Another big word You use..paradign..Please explain this word. again I cannot find it in the big book of words.
No Bridge>>>>>>>>>>>
Hey what about parking a boat a okomo and riding across the beautiful Lake? Take in a little nature. I know Jerry, I can get You a great rate!

Sir, You need to live on the Lake, You would Love Her and would not want to hurt Her.

Contender

>>>>>>>>>>> The beautiful nice bridgeless Lay Lake...<<<<<<<<<<<<

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	11/1/2005 10:02:13 PM

Sun Shimmers,
I agree!! I have seen logan Martin lake about Five years ago and tried to fish it a little with a friend and We were rocked to death by all the waves from the boats and sea-doos. We had to give up because You could not even tell if You had a bite.
I used to fish Logan Martin Years back, And I can remember a time that it was not like that at all. You could not give Me a house on Logan Martin.
Well You could but I would just sell it.
Somebody is going to get killed by all that boating mess.
Contender

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	11/1/2005 10:07:32 PM

Rusty,
Are You in the Air Force? The Army?
Is Your Father still alive?
How long has it been since You been on Lay Lake?
Contender

Name:	RUSTY -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	11/2/2005 9:24:36 PM

I spent 21 years in the Navy and the last time I fished Lay was about a year ago.

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	11/2/2005 10:54:57 PM

Rusty,
IS Your Father still alive? Do You still talk to Him?
When You fisshed Lay, Did You go back to Ceder creek?
Contender

Name:	RUSTY -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	11/3/2005 7:39:52 PM

OK, I'll bite.

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	12/2/2005 10:56:03 AM

Rusty, The Forums was down for a while. I don't know what happen.

If Your Father is still alive, ask Him about how Wal-mark is putting Ma and Paw hardware out of business. I don't have the time to explain it all to You. Your Father will help put it in order.
If You have indeed had fish Cedar creek, You would have found it half way filled up with houses now, alll aloun one side of he bank now. The bridge will fill up the other side. I don't know where Your land is, but You will have close Neighbors real close.
You will be better off to stay in fla.
George

Name:	RUSTY -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	12/3/2005 11:39:36 PM

I was up to see my Father today but did not make it to the lake. He lives in Hollins.

We did discuss the bridge and he agrees it would be very beneficial for the Talladega County side and is for it. We did not discuss Wal Mart but I know he shops there and Home Depot and Lowes.

Take Care

Rusty

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	12/4/2005 12:15:13 AM

Rusty,
Just about everybody shops wally world and Lodes and home deposit.
Just ask Him one day how they are hurting small bussiness, I sure he can tell You.
I know the Bridge will help the rich people of Talladega, It has hurt the poor People to this date. They have been taxed for it and for a long time They did not know about the bridge.The people where the bridge will hit on the Talladega side don't want it, all along the area They don't want it. The RICH PEOPLE who have land to develope LOVE it. They did not pay for it. The Poor People who don't want did. The Man that wants to put truck loads of Fertilizer to Hwy 65 north wants it big time.
Nobody on Shelby's side want it. Not one bit. There is all ready a bridge
it's called 280. use it.
The Bridge will only hurt the lake. and We don't want it.
It will make our values go down!!! It is go into a aera that's under developement with homes going for $250.000.00 They sure don't want it.
Nobody want's it over here that's lives on the lake or in Columbiana want's it.
Talladega should use the money to fix up their Schools and Police dept.
and their fire dept. before they need a bridge for a rich man to ship his Fertilizer. Let Him keep on doing what he has been doing for the past years, It has worked in the pass it will still work now!
Contender

Name:	RUSTY -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	12/10/2005 8:38:15 PM

Just another person afraid of change. It will happen sooner or later and you gotta just learn to live with it.

Name:	Contender -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	12/10/2005 9:31:52 PM

Rusty, You are right I don't like change when it comes to tearing up Nature, The lake is to be enjoyed, Why build a bridge for some people to save a few minutes and tear up the lake, lower the values, Puts People at odds among other things. The road noise will be heard a long way down the River. That not a peaceful thing to leason to, think about that.
Do You want Your kids to have a nice Place to have good memories of?
Just like You have? or do You want to tear it all up just the save a few minutes?
Are You afraid to keep the Peace? Afraid to fight the rich People to keep the Peace?
Contender

Name:	Ivan -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	2/26/2006 4:16:40 PM

OK, so I'm not from around this lake, as a matter of fact, I'm originally from Southern California, though I have been living in Memphis, TN for over 12 years now... Why am I reponding to this forum? Because I bought a lake front lot on Lewis-Smith Lake approx 3 years ago, and I'm presently building my 3800 sqft "Dream" home on that lot. Funny thing about Smith Lake, it has(If memory surves me right)six bridges, which by Contenders account, should completely render this lake a toxic dump! Well then, Mr Contender, can you explain how Smith is the thrid cleanest lake in the entire USA? The home I'm building is approx 200 yards East of Bailey Bridge(CR 22 on Smith Lake)and I have noticed Bald Eagles flying and nesting in the empty lot between me and the bridge! Hmmmmm... I guess the eagles at Lay must have extremely sensitive hearing! I really love the fact that, "You" Mr Contender, already have your home on the lake, so now you want to stop prgress.... I wonder what type of septic system you have? Is it up to today's standards? You talk about the environment, but that's just a facade you're hiding behind.... You mention everyone on "your"(Didn't know you owned the lake!) side of the lake isn't interested in this bridge, yet, you're the only one that continually writes unsubstantiated HOGWASH..... Let all your neighbors get on here and voice their position! And as far as fighting this, including suing the people involved, GOOD LUCK buddy! By the time you have lost all your money, and property, including the house on the lake, the bridge will still go through.... And I for one, will love an invitation to the Eviction Proceedings..... Ivan

Name:	RUSTY -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	2/27/2006 6:50:38 PM

Well said Ivan

Name:	Martins Cove -	Reply
Subject:	New Bridge
Date:	2/27/2006 10:30:34 PM

Touche' Ivan...thank you! I especially like the septic angle!

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