| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/4/2009 8:11:12 PM
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On December 31, 2008, the water level was 507.2 feet. Today, January 4, 2008, the water level is 505.4 feet, a reduction of 1.8 feet. Temperatures for the past several days have been fairly warm (in the 60s). If we have a warmer winter, as current, I suspect that the water level will shift almost 2 feet per week. Smith Lake property owners can forget any decent water levels in the summer months if the next 3 to 4 winter months are like the first week in January.
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| Name: |
slisasucks
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/4/2009 10:34:36 PM
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Oh my GOD, is it that time of the year again? Time for DEVELOPERS and the like to start Bad-mouthing APCO because of the operation of Smith Lake? Water PH needs to get a life! Start enjoying your life before it passes you by buddy. If you don't agree with the way APCO runs their lake, sell your house and move elsewhere... I for one am grateful that they allow my dock to float on the water that is being held on their property. I also enjoy boating, fishing and skiing on that same body of water. Sell your holdings on Smith Lake and go develop another place!
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/5/2009 3:58:09 AM
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SLISASUCKS
We have missed your defense of APC in the past several months. Did I mention APC in the post above? The meat on the comment from me was that warmer weather was for some reason causing dramatic shifts in water level.
From 1/4 50 1/5/09, the level shifted another 0.3 feet. If the same reductions continue, we will still be in a mess this summer and your dock will be on the ground; you will not be doing much sking; and fishing will be available to thos who elect to launch their boat (if a site is available).
I am not leaving Smith Lake. I think that this can be said for thousands of others. So, where do people go for relief of abuse. There are several options available and hitching up the mules and loading everything on the wagon is not one of those.
I guess that you would also defend the recent masssive release of ash from the Kingston Power Plant in Tennessee by telling all those people to pick up and move to a site not close to a coal fired power plant. Arsenic won't hurt the spurgeon; this is TVA water and they can do what they want to.
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Why does the warmer weather cause the water to go farther and farther under the full pool level?
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/6/2009 11:05:25 AM
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APCO has to release water for navigation purposes downstream and keep the river open to boat traffic. It also releases water to help cool the power plant at Gorgas. If it is a wet summer they don't have to release as much plus the lake stays more full from the rain.
If it is a dry summer as it has been the last five years or so then they have to release more... releasing more plus not having 'new' rain to keep filling the reservoir is why the level drops.
Last summer it was above 500 til about Labor Day... It dropped as far as 497 in November before the rains raised it up.
They year before it dropped below 500 about a month earlier and never did make it to full pool at all that year.
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/6/2009 3:24:09 PM
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Based on my memory of heat transfer and thermodynamics, optimum conditions for steam condensation is dictaated by two criteria - temperature of the infeed water to the heat exchangers and water flow. This assumes the heat exchangers at Gorgas have minimum fouling and are sized properly for the lbs./hr. of steam to be condensed. The other factor in the equation is the temperature of the water returned to the Warrior River.
In the summer time, higher water temperatures of infeed requires much higher water flows or lower production rates or additional cooling capacity to meet the permit for water temperature back to the Warrior River and steam condensation. I'm sure that the control strategies are much more complex that what I've mentioned. I also suspect that Gorgas routinely monitors water temperature in the Warrior River and water releases at the dam are made to support Gorgas, Navigation, etc.
Water flow alone will not suffice. During a recent hot summer, Brown's Ferry had to reduced capacity to meet permit criteria back to the Tennessee River. This was not a navigation of flow deficiency. Water temperature of the Tennessee River was the driver.
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| Name: |
Handy Man
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/7/2009 1:33:49 PM
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This whole argument is getting BORING.... why all the overanalysis on something that has been beat to death? I see no one showing that APCO has not operated this lake in the manner for which it was built. I don't like the way it is operated but I accept it as the way life is... the water level started out at 497. With all the rain it is currently at 513. ... if it has been held at 505 then just how high would the water level be now? What would have been the effects of 16 ft of water if the lowest level had been 505? Would there been room for another big rain in a few days? The winter level does not bother me at all...but I would appreciate the recreational level to be more stabilized in season.... however, we have yet to have success at tweaking our rain dances.
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/7/2009 3:56:40 PM
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Why bother to read any of the post by Keyman on how APC has operated Smith Lake versus how they should have. This is why FERC is asking for a lot of information from APC. There are many factual posts by Keyman which cannot be disputed about water levels, Gorgas, etc.
Facts apparently do not matter to a few on this forum. Continue to believe as you do while oblivous to what's going on around you. I also am getting bored with the same stories from a few which are totally lacking in facts. I am confident that the information posted by Keyman is authentic.
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/7/2009 5:05:23 PM
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Dude. Do you have any idea how much of an idiot you look like right now? APCO is doing their best to prevent the citizens of the state who live South of the lake from being flooded. It's obvious now after all your incestant complaining of how the lake could handle having no releases last week that if the water had NOT been dropped the dam most likely would have been breeched by now.
I can understand your wanting to keep tromping on APCO to try to get what you want - with no care whatsoever for anyone else (those in the flood areas) - but to do it now while the flooding is real and the prevention of worse flooding is real only makes you look stupid. Go away for awhile and come back when the flooding is over. Maybe you can get some people to back you up again. >:(
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I too Agree, but I sure am gad they pulled the water down some. before all this rain hit cause i do believe it could have been flooded.
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/7/2009 6:11:39 PM
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Bill
Just to clariify, I am not an idiot and your terminology shows how deficent you are in understanding some of the post on this forum. Please, on future post, try to address the subject and leave out any personal attacks that you have because you disagree with the author. This last post from you does little to impress readers on this forum of your knowledge of the various subjects being adressed on this forum.
I have never been critical of APC for any actions on Smith Lake for flood control, navigation. environmental, or others. For you to insinuate this strngthens my theory that a few individuals are allergic to change. My comments about APC are related to losses in water level associated with Gorgas - nothing else. For your information, I am a caring individual and would never insist on actions by APC to improve my personal situation while endangering properties or lives of others.
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| Name: |
Eric
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/7/2009 7:07:56 PM
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How 'bout some facts from you buddy? "..the dam most likely would have been breeched..." According to what analysis? You don't look too smart yourself spouting out your opinions as though it were a fact. Give me a break with the propaganda.
I don't know what would have happened. I believe SLISA has has had an analysis performed based on the pertinent data on the implications of flooding for various return periods. I believe it's a pretty big return period. It would be good to hear from Jared on this. The lake level is at 513 and some change. You're talking as if it were 525. According to one of the water level graphs it appears the lake level rose to about 517 in 2004. I'm sure it has been higher.
Whether you like or not, or are willing to admit it, things do change and can change for the better when enough people get behind a specific cause. It's called "progress." History is littered with thousands of examples where a group of people band together to effect change. Step into the 21st century. If in the past we had adopted your attitude, we'd still be drinking the "New Coke."
All this being said, I don't have as much a problem with the winter levels as I do with how the water level drops starting in June...almost a foot per week. Mind you that they are using this water to facilitate the operation of one of the dirtiest power plants in this country. And we get to keep breathing the crap they are spewing into the air.
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| Name: |
Ivan
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/8/2009 7:30:14 AM
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Oh my GOD, not another SLISA lover.....
How come I never hear about slisa attending the water quality meetings? How come you never hear about slisa during the Warrior River Clean-up days? If they REALLY cared about the lake as much as they say they do, and not the development of their seasonal land, they would include themselves in the fore-mentioned activities.
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/8/2009 9:18:52 PM
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I keep reading about all these "seasonal" lots. Would some of our famed experts on seasonal lots please educate us 15 years property owners as to what a seasoanl lot is?
Is a "year round" lot flat; on a bluff; have sandy oil beneath the boat dock; etc.? Can owners of "year round" lots walk to the water? Are year round lots located on on a bluff with a 50 foot drop? Can wealthy people only buy "year round" lots and poor people only buy "seasonal" lots? Are the "seasonal" and "year round" lot owners allowed to socialize with each other? Are elevators required to get from the dock to the house? Are there signs from realators that designate a lot as "seasonal"? Do realators identify "year round" lots to prospective buyers? Who determines the definition fo a "seasonal" versus "year round" lot? What are the price differences between "seasonala" and "year round" lots?
And, while your'e doing that, also educate us as to what a "developer" is. Are developers only interested in selling "seasonal" lots or are they also property owners themselves on Smith Lake? Do developers have famillies; children; and grandchildren who enjoy the water and wish the lake was maintained at reasonable levels year round.I'm assuming from some of the comments that developers never sell "year round" lots.
I'm also assuming that "year round" lot owners are totally satisfied with the magnitude of the water fluctuations on Smith Lake; hate SLISA; are the only people on the lake who are environmentalist; always participate in clean up activities; love the management practices of APC; etc.
Conversely, seasonal property owners only belong to and support SLISA; believe APC could manage water level control in a more responsible manner; throw garbage in the water; like poor water quality; their children do not mind hitting sand bars when the water level is<500 feet; and are generally low income; etc.
As you can see, the concept of seasonal lots by a few on this forum is ridiculous and an attempt to divert attention from the real problems on Smith Lake.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/9/2009 4:26:16 PM
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I could not agree more, that has been my arguement all along. It should not matter where your lot is on the lake, the more water and a stable water level is to everyones best interest.
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| Name: |
slisasucks
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/11/2009 7:09:17 PM
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I agree let's get to the REAL PROBLEM at Smith Lake....... There are a few land owners, that speculated and bought thousands of feet of seasonal land, hoping that APCO would cave in a start keeping the lake levels higher, so that their investments would come to fruition. I mean, why not buy season land for pennies on the dollar, get the "STAKE HOLDERS" as they like to call them(I call them FOOLS) to foot the bill to start a fight against APCO, hoping that one day, their season land becomes year round, and wola.... MILLIONAIRES!!!!
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/11/2009 8:00:03 PM
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HoHum!!!
One of the things that I appreciate about SLISASUCKS is his thought process. He is so analytical and able to develop theories that are almost funny. Is it possible that SLISASUCKS is one of the co - originators of "Global Warming"? I'll bet that SLISASUCKS and Al Gore are best of friends and communicate daily on new theories to sell the public. Could the next one following "Global Warming" be "Developers on Smith Lake". This might make a good movie and win SLISASUCKS a Nobel prize and an Oscar. Would that not be great!
If I were APC, I would hire Fox News to track down SLISASUCKS and say "Please! Please!!" Be our enemy! We can't stand many friends like SLISASUCKS. .
SLISASUCKS, you're not helping APC's cause with your prose. These "fools", "seasonal property owners", and "idiots" on Smith Lake are just not buying into your theories that the problem is 'developers". We know what the problem is and how to fix it. SLISA's request to FERC is not unreasonable.
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/12/2009 7:29:40 PM
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It IS unreasonable to expect the customers of APCO to pay for cooling towers to benefit you and not them (the other customers). I suppose if it were the other way around and you lived in pigsknuckle Alabama and someone with a half million dollar home on Smith Lake wanted you to help pay for cooling towers so you could sit out on your boat dock and sip a cold one on a hot summer day you'd be right there with your checkbook wouldn't you?
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/12/2009 8:03:24 PM
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Bill
It's not Pigsknuckele, Alabama - It's Suckegg Road over in Guntersville. You need to get off this kick that APC should not pay for anything that only is applicable to Smith Lake. It's a big corporation and everything goes into a big bucket. APC's nuclear units' megawatts are mixed with coal fired and gas and hydro facilities. Once produced, it's homogenous.- no identity. So, who should pay for what?
By the way, what's your thoughts on APC going back to the old rates since energy cost are way down? Thank goodness Suckegg Road is on TVA power and residents of Suckegg road don't have to worry about a Gorgas downstream - only millfoil which is really bad.
I'll bet that most of the customers of APC only expect them to follow the rules of the permit. If one of them says to follow the Rule Curve, would not you expect them to do that. If someone (APC) says that they can't run Gorgas without Smith Lake's water, APC customers would expect APC to do what ever is necessary to support the additional capacity or return back to the capacity that allows them to follow the Rule Curve.
It's not complicated. I pay my own way. I'm not responsible for the bad decisions by APC's Engineering Department.
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/13/2009 11:18:06 AM
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Dude you're not hearing a word I'm saying. You just don't get it. :rolleyes:
It's a waste of my time trying to reason with you.
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water Level Shift
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Date:
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1/13/2009 12:30:53 PM
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Hey "Dude" Bill
I can reason with anyone who talks facts and is willing to listen. However, when it's a one way conversation as you wish, it's a waste of my time.
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